Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war

Joint Chiefs, key lawmaker held own talks with Moammar Gadhafi regime

By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro and Kelly Riddell - The Washington Times - Wednesday, January 28, 2015

First of three parts

Top Pentagon officials and a senior Democrat in Congress so distrusted Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's 2011 march to war in Libya that they opened their own diplomatic channels with the Gadhafi regime in an effort to halt the escalating crisis, according to secret audio recordings recovered from Tripoli.

The tapes, reviewed by The Washington Times and authenticated by the participants, chronicle U.S. officials' unfiltered conversations with Col. Moammar Gadhafi's son and a top Libyan leader, including criticisms that Mrs. Clinton had developed tunnel vision and led the U.S. into an unnecessary war without adequately weighing the intelligence community's concerns.

"You should see these internal State Department reports that are produced in the State Department that go out to the Congress. They're just full of stupid, stupid facts," an American intermediary specifically dispatched by the Joint Chiefs of Staff told the Gadhafi regime in July 2011, saying the State Department was controlling what intelligence would be reported to U.S. officials.

At the time, the Gadhafi regime was fighting a civil war that grew out of the Arab Spring, battling Islamist-backed rebels who wanted to dethrone the longtime dictator. Mrs. Clinton argued that Gadhafi might engage in genocide and create a humanitarian crisis and ultimately persuaded President Obama, NATO allies and the United Nations to authorize military intervention.

Gadhafi's son and heir apparent, Seif Gadhafi, told American officials in the secret conversations that he was worried Mrs. Clinton was using false pretenses to justify unseating his father and insisted that the regime had no intention of harming a mass of civilians. He compared Mrs. Clinton's campaign for war to that of the George W. Bush administration's now debunked weapons of mass destruction accusations, which were used to lobby Congress to invade Iraq, the tapes show.

"It was like the WMDs in Iraq. It was based on a false report," Gadhafi said in a May 2011 phone call to Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich, an Ohio Democrat serving at the time. "Libyan airplanes bombing demonstrators, Libyan airplanes bombing districts in Tripoli, Libyan army killed thousands, etc., etc., and now the whole world found there is no single evidence that such things happened in Libya."

Seif Gadhafi also warned that many of the U.S.-supported armed rebels were "not freedom fighters" but rather jihadists whom he described as "gangsters and terrorists."

"And now you have NATO supporting them with ships, with airplanes, helicopters, arms, training, communication," he said in one recorded conversation with U.S. officials. "We ask the American government send a fact-finding mission to Libya. I want you to see everything with your own eyes."

The surreptitiously taped conversations reveal an extraordinary departure from traditional policy, in which the U.S. government speaks to foreign governments with one voice coordinated by the State Department.

Instead, the tapes show that the Pentagon's senior uniformed leadership and a congressman from Mrs. Clinton's own party conveyed sentiments to the Libyan regime that undercut or conflicted with the secretary of state's own message at the time.

"If this story is true, it would be highly unusual for the Pentagon to conduct a separate set of diplomatic negotiations, given the way we operated when I was secretary of state," James A. Baker III, who served under President George H.W. Bush, told The Times. "In our administration, the president made sure that we all sang from the same hymnal."

Mr. Kucinich, who challenged Mrs. Clinton and Barack Obama for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, acknowledged that he undertook his own conversations with the Gadhafi regime. He said he feared Mrs. Clinton was using emotion to sell a war against Libya that wasn't warranted, and he wanted to get all the information he could to share with his congressional colleagues.

"I had facts that indicated America was headed once again into an intervention that was going to be disastrous," Mr. Kucinich told The Times. "What was being said at the State Department — if you look at the charge at the time — it wasn't so much about what happened as it was about what would happen. So there was a distortion of events that were occurring in Libya to justify an intervention which was essentially wrong and illegal."

Mr. Kucinich wrote a letter to Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton in August explaining his communications in a last-ditch effort to stop the war.

"I have been contacted by an intermediary in Libya who has indicated that President Muammar Gadhafi is willing to negotiate an end to the conflict under conditions which would seem to favor Administration policy," Mr. Kucinich wrote on Aug. 24.

Neither the White House nor the State Department responded to his letter, he said.

A spokesman for Mrs. Clinton declined to provide any comment about the recordings.

The State Department also declined to answer questions about separate contacts from the Pentagon and Mr. Kucinich with the Gadhafi regime, but said the goal of Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama was regime change in Libya.

"U.S. policy during the revolution supported regime change through peaceful means, in line with UNSCR 1973 policy and NATO mission goals," the State Department said. "We consistently emphasized at the time that Moammar Gadhafi had to step down and leave Libya as an essential component of the transition."

'President is not getting accurate information'

Both inside and outside the Obama administration, Mrs. Clinton was among the most vocal early proponents of using U.S. military force to unseat Gadhafi. Joining her in making the case were French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican, and her successor as secretary of state, John F. Kerry.

Mrs. Clinton's main argument was that Gadhafi was about to engage in a genocide against civilians in Benghazi, where the rebels held their center of power. But defense intelligence officials could not corroborate those concerns and in fact assessed that Gadhafi was unlikely to risk world outrage by inflicting mass casualties, officials told The Times. As a result, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, strongly opposed Mrs. Clinton's recommendation to use force.

If Mrs. Clinton runs for president next year, her style of leadership as it relates to foreign policy will be viewed through the one war that she personally championed as secretary of state. Among the key questions every candidate faces is how they will assess U.S. intelligence and solicit the advice of the military leadership.

Numerous U.S. officials interviewed by The Times confirmed that Mrs. Clinton, and not Mr. Obama, led the charge to use NATO military force to unseat Gadhafi as Libya's leader and that she repeatedly dismissed the warnings offered by career military and intelligence officials.

In the recovered recordings, a U.S. intelligence liaison working for the Pentagon told a Gadhafi aide that Mr. Obama privately informed members of Congress that Libya "is all Secretary Clinton's matter" and that the nation's highest-ranking generals were concerned that the president was being misinformed.

The Pentagon liaison indicated on the tapes that Army Gen. Charles H. Jacoby Jr., a top aide to Adm. Mullen, "does not trust the reports that are coming out of the State Department and CIA, but there's nothing he can do about it."

In one conversation to the Libyans, the American intelligence asset said, "I can tell you that the president is not getting accurate information, so at some point someone has to get accurate information to him. I think about a way through former Secretary Gates or maybe to Adm. Mullen to get him information"

The recordings are consistent with what many high-ranking intelligence, military and academic sources told The Times:

Mrs. Clinton was headstrong to enter the Libyan crisis, ignoring the Pentagon's warnings that no U.S. interests were at stake and regional stability could be threatened. Instead, she relied heavily on the assurances of the Libyan rebels and her own memory of Rwanda, where U.S. inaction may have led to the genocide of at least 500,000 people.

"Neither the intervention decision nor the regime change decision was an intelligence-heavy decision," said one senior intelligence official directly involved with the administration's decision-making, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "People weren't on the edge of their seats, intelligence wasn't driving the decision one way or another."

Instead of relying on the Defense Department or the intelligence community for analysis, officials told The Times, the White House trusted Mrs. Clinton's charge, which was then supported by Ambassador to the United Nations Susan E. Rice and National Security Council member Samantha Power, as reason enough for war.

"Susan Rice was involved in the Rwanda crisis in 1994, Samantha Power wrote very moving books about what happened in Rwanda, and Hillary Clinton was also in the background of that crisis as well," said Allen Lynch, a professor of international relations at the University of Virginia. "I think they have all carried this with them as a kind of guilt complex."


Humanitarian crisis was not imminent

In 2003, Gadhafi agreed to dismantle his weapons of mass destruction and denounce terrorism to re-establish relations with the West. He later made reparations to the families of those who died in the bombing of Pan-Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.

News media frequently described the apparent transformation as Libya "coming in from the cold."

Still, he ruled Libya with an iron grip, and by February 2011 civil war raged throughout the country. Loyalist forces mobilized tanks and troops toward Benghazi, creating a panicked mass exodus of civilians toward Egypt.

Mrs. Clinton met with Libyan rebel spokesman Mahmoud Jibril in the Paris Westin hotel in mid-March so she could vet the rebel cause to unseat Gadhafi. Forty-five minutes after speaking with Mr. Jibril, Mrs. Clinton was convinced that a military intervention was needed.

"I talked extensively about the dreams of a democratic civil state where all Libyans are equal a political participatory system with no exclusions of any Libyans, even the followers of Gadhafi who did not commit crimes against the Libyan people, and how the international community should protect civilians from a possible genocide like the one [that] took place in Rwanda," Mr. Jibril told The Times. "I felt by the end of the meeting, I passed the test. Benghazi was saved."

So on March 17, 2011, the U.S. supported U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973 for military intervention in Libya to help protect its people from Gadhafi's forthcoming march on Benghazi, where he threatened he would "show no mercy" to resisters.

"In this particular country — Libya — at this particular moment, we were faced with the prospect of violence on a horrific scale," Mr. Obama declared in an address to the nation on March 28. "We had a unique ability to stop that violence: An international mandate for action, a broad coalition prepared to join us, the support of Arab countries and a plea for help from the Libyan people themselves."

Yet Human Rights Watch did not see the humanitarian crisis as imminent.

"At that point, we did not see the imminence of massacres that would rise to genocidelike levels," said Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division for Human Rights Watch. "Gadhafi's forces killed hundreds of overwhelmingly unarmed protesters. There were threats of Libyan forces approaching Benghazi, but we didn't feel that rose to the level of imminent genocidelike atrocities."

Instead, she said, the U.S. government was trying to be at the forefront of the Arab Spring, when many dictator-led countries were turning to democracy.

"I think the dynamic for the U.S. government was: Things are changing fast, Tunisia has fallen, Egypt has fallen, and we'd better be on the front of this, supporting a new government and not being seen as supporting the old government," Ms. Whitson said.

Clinton blocks Gadhafi outreach

On the day the U.N. resolution was passed, Mrs. Clinton ordered a general within the Pentagon to refuse to take a call with Gadhafi's son Seif and other high-level members within the regime, to help negotiate a resolution, the secret recordings reveal.

A day later, on March 18, Gadhafi called for a cease-fire, another action the administration dismissed.

Soon, a call was set up between the former U.S. ambassador to Libya, Gene Cretz, and Gadhafi confidant Mohammed Ismael during which Mr. Ismael confirmed that the regime's highest-ranking generals were under orders not to fire upon protesters.

"I told him we were not targeting civilians and Seif told him that," Mr. Ismael told The Times in an telephone interview this month, recounting the fateful conversation.

While Mrs. Clinton urged the Pentagon to cease its communications with the Gadhafi regime, the intelligence asset working with the Joint Chiefs remained in contact for months afterward.

"Everything I am getting from the State Department is that they do not care about being part of this. Secretary Clinton does not want to negotiate at all," the Pentagon intelligence asset told Seif Gadhafi and his adviser on the recordings.

Communication was so torn between the Libyan regime and the State Department that they had no point of contact within the department to even communicate whether they were willing to accept the U.N.'s mandates, former Libyan officials said.

Mrs. Clinton eventually named Mr. Cretz as the official U.S. point of contact for the Gadhafi regime. Mr. Cretz, the former ambassador to Libya, was removed from the country in 2010 amid Libyan anger over derogatory comments he made regarding Gadhafi released by Wikileaks. As a result, Mr. Cretz was not trusted or liked by the family.

Shutting the Gadhafis out of the conversation allowed Mrs. Clinton to pursue a solitary point of view, said a senior Pentagon official directly involved with the intervention.

"The decision to invade [Libya] had already been made, so everything coming out of the State Department at that time was to reinforce that decision," the official explained, speaking only on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution.

As a result, the Pentagon went its own way and established communications with Seif Gadhafi through one of his friends, a U.S. businessman, who acted as an intermediary. The goal was to identify a clear path and strategy forward in Libya — something that wasn't articulated by the White House or State Department at the time, officials said.

"Our big thing was: 'What's a good way out of this, what's a bridge to post-Gadhafi conflict once the military stops and the civilians take over, what's it going to look like?'" said a senior military official involved in the planning, who requested anonymity. "We had a hard time coming up with that because once again nobody knew what the lay of the clans and stuff was going to be.

"The impression we got from both the businessman and from Seif was that the situation is bad, but this [NATO intervention] is even worse," the official said, confirming the sentiments expressed on the audio recordings. "All of these things don't have to happen this way, and it will be better for Libya in the long run both economically and politically if they didn't."


[E, RALA -- worth a click for rest]

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This is why they are keeping this old worthless drunk Hitlary under wraps when she should bo out glad handing money people. She has so much to explain for and no way to do it. She is toast.

This story is BIG !!!


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I believe that I saw one of these people on the ground in Libya working as a go-between on The Blaze TV about a year ago or so.... it was a woman that was being interviewed with heavy shadows to shield her identity.... my memory isn't so good anymore, but I think there was also a guy's voice being interviewed as well... they were basically telling the same story back then.....


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ETA: Actually the guy appeared on camera, I can't recall his name, but he was someone that had a long history of working with multi-nationals in Libya and got involved because he couldn't believe the stories that were coming out in the US (and US-controlled) media -- it was no where close to the reality that he was seeing at the present time, and in the years running up to it.... his view was that it was a total scam being run and he was trying to do anything that he could to prevent what ultimately happened, I wish that I could remember his name...... he wore metal rimmed eye glass and was heavy set.... (I think that he is the guy mentioned in the article as: "a U.S. businessman, who acted as an intermediary")

This IS big. And, ugly.

Quote: Sanguine wrote in post #5

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This IS big. And, ugly.

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"Exclusive — Rand Paul: Obama Defended ‘Hillary’s War’ In Libya In Secret Capitol Hill Meeting With GOP"

"Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) tells Breitbart News that President Barack Obama—in a closed-door Capitol Hill luncheon with Republican lawmakers on Sept. 10, 2013—defended Hillary Clinton’s rush to war in Libya by claiming that then dictator Muammar Gaddafi had been planning an imminent attack on his own people in Benghazi. However, new evidence emerging via the Washington Times suggests that wasn’t necessarily true.

The conversation between Paul and the President—which occurred during the luncheon—has never before been revealed to the public. In the meeting, Obama was seeking congressional support for military action in Syria. But Paul questioned the president on why he went along with Clinton’s push for military action against Libya in 2011, in which the Obama administration used military force—without congressional approval—to topple Gaddafi and his regime, despite the fact that Gaddafi had begun cooperating with the West years earlier.

Paul has been a regular and frequent critic of Clinton’s push for war in Libya, saying in interviews with Breitbart News and NBC News’ Meet The Press while on a medical mission trip to Guatemala this past summer—where Paul, a ophthalmologist before his election to the U.S. Senate, performed charity eye surgeries—that Clinton is a “war hawk” and her policies destabilized Libya to the point where terrorists had the upper hand in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi on Sept. 11, 2012. That terrorist attack claimed the lives of U.S. Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens, foreign service officer Sean Smith and security contractors Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty.

Paul hit that theme again in his Thursday interview with Breitbart News, saying Clinton led the U.S. into war with Libya “under false pretenses.”

“What I’ve been saying for over a year now is that Hillary took us to war in Libya under false pretenses,” Paul said. “She claimed there was some sort of imminent threat and that there was going to be some sort of genocide and she sold this war to the Obama administration.”

But Paul has never, until now in this exclusive interview with Breitbart News, revealed the fact that President Obama himself defended “Hillary’s war”—as Paul likes to call the U.S. military intervention in Libya—as necessary. The president believed, based on what Clinton and a few others were telling him, that the people of Benghazi were under imminent threat of attack from Gaddafi’s regime. Essentially, what Paul is revealing here is that the president of the United States himself bought the argument, or “false pretenses,” that Clinton sold him and other senior administration officials about Gaddafi."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...eting-with-gop/

I am skeptical an egomaniac like Obama could be "talked into" anything by some subordinate. After all he's the smartest guy in the room, any room, anytime, anywhere. Sounds more like a decision had been made to remove Gaddafi, and, in order to protect Obama's image as the peace President, Clinton was chosen to be the fall guy if it ever came to that. Now it has..