#1 Three years after Gaddafi, Libya is imploding into chaos and violence by ThirstyMan 16.03.2014 00:31

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The Libyan former prime minister Ali Zeidan fled last week after parliament voted him out of office. A North Korean-flagged oil tanker, the Morning Glory, illegally picked up a cargo of crude from rebels in the east of the country and sailed safely away, despite a government minister's threat that the vessel would be "turned into a pile of metal" if it left port: the Libyan navy blamed rough weather for its failure to stop the ship. Militias based in Misrata, western Libya, notorious for their violence and independence, have launched an offensive against the eastern rebels in what could be the opening shots in a civil war between western and eastern Libya.

Without a central government with any real power, Libya is falling apart. And this is happening almost three years after 19 March 2011 when the French air force stopped Mu'ammer Gaddafi's counter-offensive to crush the uprising in Benghazi. Months later, his burnt-out tanks still lay by the road to the city. With the United States keeping its involvement as low-profile as possible, Nato launched a war in which rebel militiamen played a secondary, supportive role and ended with the overthrow and killing of Gaddafi.

A striking feature of events in Libya in the past week is how little interest is being shown by leaders and countries which enthusiastically went to war in 2011 in the supposed interests of the Libyan people. President Obama has since spoken proudly of his role in preventing a "massacre" in Benghazi at that time. But when the militiamen, whose victory Nato had assured, opened fire on a demonstration against their presence in Tripoli in November last year, killing at least 42 protesters and firing at children with anti-aircraft machine guns, there was scarcely a squeak of protest from Washington, London or Paris.
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Can anything positive be learnt from the Libyan experience which might be useful in establishing states that are an improvement on those ruled by Gaddafi, Assad and the like? An important point is that demands for civil, political and economic rights – which were at the centre of the Arab Spring uprisings – mean nothing without a nation state to guarantee them; otherwise national loyalties are submerged by sectarian, regional and ethnic hatreds.

This should be obvious, but few of those supporting the Arab uprisings, for reasons other than self-interest, seem to have taken it on board. "Freedom under the rule of law is almost unknown outside nation-states," writes the journalist and MEP Daniel Hannan in a succinct analysis of why the Arab Spring failed. "Constitutional liberty requires a measure of patriotism, meaning a readiness to accept your countrymen's disagreeable decisions, to abide by election results when you lose."

for more see:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comm...ce-9194697.html

#2 RE: Three years after Gaddafi, Libya is imploding into chaos and violence by Frank Cannon 16.03.2014 00:39

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Three years after Gaddafi, Libya is imploding into chaos and violence



Couldn't this be said of a half dozen countries or more right now under the steady capable hands of Zero?

#3 RE: Three years after Gaddafi, Libya is imploding into chaos and violence by algernonpj 16.03.2014 11:46

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But the Nato powers that overthrew him – and by some accounts gave the orders to kill him – did not do so because he was a tyrannical ruler. It was rather because he pursued a quirkily nationalist policy backed by a great deal of money which was at odds with western policies in the Middle East.


This is the money quote. Libya had not only very valuable oil but its money was backed by gold held in the state owned central bank. Qaddaffi used that wealth to pursue a nationalist policy, that is one that he deemed benefited Libya not global corporate or finance.

Curiously the the rag tag rebels instantly took over the oil and set up a new central bank.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-main...ank-oil-company
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archi...l-bank-of-libya

Hmmm ..........

While Qaddaffi lived like a potentate, he shared Libya's wealth with the people.
http://noiri.blogspot.com/2011/10/look-a...-destroyed.html

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Can anything positive be learnt from the Libyan experience which might be useful in establishing states that are an improvement on those ruled by Gaddafi, Assad and the like? An important point is that demands for civil, political and economic rights – which were at the centre of the Arab Spring uprisings – mean nothing without a nation state to guarantee them; otherwise national loyalties are submerged by sectarian, regional and ethnic hatreds.


Yes. We have no business being involved in regime change. The kindest thing I can say about what the PTB in the US have done in the Middle East is that they have no clue and seem incapable of learning from experience.

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